tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-826783898962653229.post9203824375391825292..comments2023-10-18T08:34:32.335-07:00Comments on Banana Pepper Martinis: Does Video Game Criticism Need A Lester Bangs?Kirk Battlehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16612840105075834275noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-826783898962653229.post-37953735797417905752008-12-02T05:22:00.000-08:002008-12-02T05:22:00.000-08:00@ PliskinYeah...I mostly brought it up in the essa...@ Pliskin<BR/><BR/>Yeah...I mostly brought it up in the essay to show how even I personally was biased and against some industry conventions. I find the ideal promotes challenge or puzzles over substance. These aren't bad things, but Koster's idea bugged me because in games I feel like this activity gets placed above the experience itself or what it's trying to deliver. To me it's just a means, not an end. I probably should've emphasized that Koster is an industry genius with years of experience and I'm just some twit who plays too many games<BR/><BR/>As for the purpose of criticism...he's just one guy and one set of ideals. He quotes Pauline Kael and other music critics several times, so like him I think a good critic draws on a variety of people. I'd posted all those blog posts rambling about him and finished his book, so I decided to write something that the Popmatters could crowd get into and slip in some video game discussion while I was at it.<BR/><BR/>It sounds like we're both on Samuel Johnson's page with the ultimate function: we're just coloring in details, helping people appreciate it, and picking up stuff that was misunderstood.<BR/><BR/>@ Graduate School Gamer<BR/><BR/>I gave up on originality or being "first" for a topic on the interwebs a while ago. I'm just saying it a new way.Kirk Battlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16612840105075834275noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-826783898962653229.post-5076033024362050062008-12-01T23:25:00.000-08:002008-12-01T23:25:00.000-08:00I could swear this was a focused episode of 1Up Yo...I could swear this was a focused episode of 1Up Yours during the 2006 Luke Smith days. ;)Graduate School Gamerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11864044936305649633noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-826783898962653229.post-15263092678855416752008-12-01T20:38:00.000-08:002008-12-01T20:38:00.000-08:00Hey fine article L.B. Big ups for working in a re...Hey fine article L.B. Big ups for working in a reference to Samuel Johnson. <BR/><BR/>I had a couple thoughts:<BR/><BR/>1) Since I adhere to Koster's fun-is-learning-rules idea I wanted to stick up to it. You said you find learning rule systems is boring and tedious, and from the description I got this idea that you had, like, navigating menu systems in mind. But my take on Koster, and my own view, is that learning rule systems is just a matter of doing creative problem solving: finding your way through a level in portal, beating a boss in Zelda, whaling on some ninjas in Ninja Gaiden. <BR/><BR/>2) When you talk about the value of games crit, I get the idea that you're looking for some kind of *practical effect* that games criticism has on the world: making people choose certain underappreciated games, or convincing them to have positive opinions about certain games. (like Bangs convincing people to listen to noise, per bob quine.) <BR/><BR/>While all this is well and good (there is the inescapable fact that we're trying to persuade people of something), I don't tend to think that the value of criticism reduces to changing the attitudes of our readers to works of art. <BR/><BR/>I tend to think of criticism as a way to translate what games do from game into english, explain how they make fun in words, in a way that is objective and sharable as possible. Maybe you can't convince anyone to buy a game this way but maybe it will make you appreciate it in a new way, and that seems worthwhile to me.Iroquois Pliskinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14324582950813408440noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-826783898962653229.post-73123940615429006772008-12-01T10:33:00.000-08:002008-12-01T10:33:00.000-08:00Yeah...I get the feeling this one has left my hand...Yeah...I get the feeling this one has left my hands and is up to the interwebs now. I think I'm gonna shut off my comment feed to the article soon and let it stand on its own two legs in a bit.<BR/><BR/>He does set a pretty good standard for those of us in any other medium.Kirk Battlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16612840105075834275noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-826783898962653229.post-11333685573049849472008-12-01T10:18:00.000-08:002008-12-01T10:18:00.000-08:00Seems like an ever-growing bag of worms you opened...Seems like an ever-growing bag of worms you opened up with this. My twitter feed is on fire.David Sahlinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09050028448152381194noreply@blogger.com