tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-826783898962653229.post8312470302770105688..comments2023-10-18T08:34:32.335-07:00Comments on Banana Pepper Martinis: Pauline Kael - 3Kirk Battlehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16612840105075834275noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-826783898962653229.post-34276237371046026752008-12-17T07:22:00.000-08:002008-12-17T07:22:00.000-08:00I read two of the Slate things and never picked it...I read two of the Slate things and never picked it back up for the completion. 4 dudes discussing their favorite game and bickering about how the other is wrong isn't really up my alley.<BR/><BR/>I suppose the biggest problem I can see, once you get past the initial knee-jerk reaction of "Don't be mean to people", is that tearing someone else apart is not always the most effective style of arguing. It has its moments, particularly when you're fighting for the under dog, but Kael does it every single time. It gets to be like Yahtzee after a while, she's just making a spectacle for its own sake rather than having a point. <BR/><BR/>It also muddles her message. After reading a 20 page attack on a 300 page book on film theory, the only thing I had learned was that this person was wrong. What Kael thought or what would be a better film theory was nowhere to be found.Kirk Battlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16612840105075834275noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-826783898962653229.post-58835160901548463042008-12-16T19:48:00.000-08:002008-12-16T19:48:00.000-08:00Hopefully not because it's positive, but I thought...Hopefully not because it's positive, but I thought this was the best Kael post yet. <BR/><BR/>I'm tending, maybe as quickly as you're tending, to think we critics should call each other out more aggressively. What did you think of Slate's recent gaming club? Those fellows started to get testy with each other, especially after Seth started bragging that he never has to do interviews or junkets anymore. But they never actually came to blows. Should they have?<BR/><BR/>bk, thanks for the tip on Farber - I'll admit I've never heard of him.pixelvixen707https://www.blogger.com/profile/14029716579800599199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-826783898962653229.post-23214786583214924852008-12-16T15:46:00.000-08:002008-12-16T15:46:00.000-08:00In my opinion, video game criticism doesn't need a...In my opinion, video game criticism doesn't need a Pauline Kael, or a Lester Bangs either. What I would be interested in seeing is a critic who took some tips from Manny Farber. Partly this is because I think Farber is by far the best English-language film critic. He's also the primary inspiration behind some of the best film criticism being written today (which is pretty impressive since he stopped writing about movies in 1977 and indeed died a few months ago). There is currently only a single Farber collection out, "Negative Space," though a complete roundup of his film pieces is in the works, to be published by the Library of America. He is not an easy writer, not because his prose is jargon-heavy or "academic" (it's the furthest thing from either), but just because it takes some time and effort to enter into his quicksilver sensibility. If you like, I'll list some of the primary traits that make Farber a worthwhile model for any form of criticism.bkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07812741972333789640noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-826783898962653229.post-1415587164648681512008-12-15T12:35:00.000-08:002008-12-15T12:35:00.000-08:00Yeah, I literally sat down and made myself think o...Yeah, I literally sat down and made myself think only positive thoughts about her for this piece. Too many people liked her for me to not focus on the arguments and recognize the good she did. Finding the balance between recognizing her faults and admiring her strengths will be the tricky part of the final essay.Kirk Battlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16612840105075834275noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-826783898962653229.post-4586986109749340312008-12-15T10:19:00.000-08:002008-12-15T10:19:00.000-08:00Great essay, full of big ideas as usual, L.B. You ...Great essay, full of big ideas as usual, L.B. You really know how to fill our plates. <BR/><BR/>Rather than respond to the whole thing, I'll just focus on one aspect of the Kael approach that troubles me. You suggest that we take our cue from Kael and "just start calling people out on it. To start naming them, not because you dislike them, but because they are driving the medium into the ground."<BR/><BR/>I'm not sure Kael was ever able to separate not liking someone from disagreeing with their arguments, but I'll give her a pass on that one. Bosley Crowther was a pretty stuffy gatekeeper that probably needed to be taken down a notch or two.<BR/><BR/>My real problem is that if we argue with each other on the basis of which ideas are driving the medium into the ground, we're bound to generate a lot of heat, but not much light. Such stakes are, I think, artificially high and tend to produce shrill arguments on both sides. <BR/><BR/>It turns out that Disney didn't kill animation or choke off innovation like its harshest critics said it would. All it took was for Studio Ghibli and others to remind us there's another way. Similarly, all the doomsday arguments about mindless video games are countered by games like Braid that make a strong case for a different way of thinking.<BR/><BR/>I obviously didn't like Braid as much as some, but I would point to the critical response to that game, mine included, as a positive and generally constructive collective conversation that also happened to include lots of input from the artist himself. I think if we had adopted the aggressive Kael approach ("I don't like this game and here's why you shouldn't either"), we never would have produced the useful discussion that emerged.<BR/><BR/>I guess a lot of this comes down to our various sensibilities. I personally don't like Kael very much, even when I agree with her, because I think she was too often driven by negative, even hateful motives. I think angry artists can sometimes be driven to produce interesting stuff; but angry critics often cloud their own judgment, even when they make us pump our fists in agreement. I'm not saying we should never get angry or write from that perspective, but Kael sort of lived in that place, and even though it distinguished her, I think it ultimately diminished her effectiveness.Michael Abbotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14437378247420941499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-826783898962653229.post-22785975396063379602008-12-13T20:28:00.000-08:002008-12-13T20:28:00.000-08:00This was great. The series is coming together nice...This was great. The series is coming together nicely.Ben Abrahamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04146790136740709664noreply@blogger.com